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RE: Retrospective Validation - A slightly different viewpoint

Title: RE: Retrospective Validation - A slightly different vi
And I guess that the first question that will come up: is this still the system the users want/need? If the GAP with the user's intended use is big, no amount of paper will validate the system. The system's unsuitability for today's user needs is the major risk to retrospective validation.
Paul Herremans
-----Original Message-----
From: Ed.Crosson@aventis.com [mailto:Ed.Crosson@aventis.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 8 May 2002 17:15
To: PharmWeb Computer Validation
Subject: RE: Retrospective Validation - A slightly different viewpoint

My suggestion would be to sit down with a cup of strong coffee and relax.
Having done tha, start figuring out what it will take for this system to be
validated - the word with the really big "V". Maybe figure out where you are
right now, and what the difference in states is.  Once you figure this out,
you might want to come up with a plan (some might call it a "validation
plan"  (original, nicht war?)
Then you'll know for yourself what is the first "required activity".
Ed Crosson
Aventis Pharma
My opinions are mine.


-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Fiorito [mailto:afiorito@hollisgroup.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 10:14 AM
To: PharmWeb Computer Validation
Subject: Retrospective Validation - A slightly different viewpoint

I have been pondering the subject of retrospective validation.  The subject
has come up again here, on other mailing lists, and at a conference I
recently attended.  The conventional wisdom seems to be that the first thing
you should do is write a User Requirements Specification and everything else
will fall out from that.
After much contemplation, I must respectfully disagree.
In my opinion, a User Requirements Specification is far from the first task
and may not be necessary at all.  Let me stir a little controversy into
everyone's day and give you my opinion on the matter.  And rather than get
into a long winded and boringly dry technical discussion, and in honor of
the new Star Wars movie coming out, let me add a little humor and tell a
story of long, long ago in a galaxy far, far away.
Imagine that you have just woken up on the desert plant of Tatooine.  You
find yourself in the body of Looke, a young QA rep at Galactic
Pharmaceuticals Tatooine research lab.  You're still trying to figure out
how the heck you got here when DagobaBob, the droid systems administrator,
comes in and tells you, "We just noticed that there is a little droid in the
corner running the nuna density counter.  We have no documentation on how he
works but he's been there for years and everything has always run fine."  He
leaves.
At that moment, a big guy dressed in black crashes through your front door.
He's wearing a weird helmet and a badge that says "Darth 483, Imperial Food
& Drug Agency".  He looks at you and says, "Looke.  I am your fa.... oops,
wrong line... Looke.  You must validate all your systems.  Start with THAT
DROID OVER THERE."  At which point he waves his lightsaber menacingly at you
and stomps out.
You look up validation in your handy IFDA glossary and it defines validation
as:
"Establishing documented evidence which provides a high degree of assurance
that a specific process will consistently produce a product meeting its
predetermined specifications and quality attributes."
You also look on the IFDA web site and, in the "Guideline on General
Principles of Process Validation" find the term "retrospective validation"
defined as:
"Validation of a process for a product already in distribution based upon
accumulated production, testing and control data."
Now what.  You have to "establish documented evidence".  The droid has been
running for a while so you know that you can lean on "accumulated
production, testing, and control data" but one way or another you must
provide that "high degree of assurance" yadda yadda yadda.

So what should you do first?
(#1)  Get the droid under change control.  If you don't get a fix on it
it'll be a moving target.  Yes, dear reader, you are correct in that we
don't know what our little droid does so it will be difficult to assess the
engineering correctness of change, but from now on DagobaBob is going to
have to document every time he changes out a motivator.  I think that the
URS-first crowd has assumed this step but I'd make a formal declaration of
it for the benefit of the IFDA inspectors.
(#2)  Write a design specification.  If you don't know what it is you can
never understand it.  Collect up any documentation that you can find; user
manuals, parts descriptions, field engineering notes, etc.  Write down all
of the parts, where they're installed, what they interface with, and how
they work (to the best of your understanding).  At this point you may want
to perform some functional tests to make sure that the droid actually does
what you think it does.  Does it perform all of the functions as written in
the old user manual that you found?  You may ask DagobaBob to write this
part and then verify it by auditing DagobaBob and his staff and seeing for
yourself.
At the end of this step you should now have a good idea what your little
droid does and you'll know that it won't change without you knowing about
it.  Darth 483 still gives you nightmares but at least you have something to
show him when he returns.
(#3)  Verify the operation of the droid and that the operation is in
accordance with your SOPs.  Go through your Droid Operations SOPs and make
sure that they're being applied.  Is access to the droid controlled by your
user accounts system?  Is the droid being backed up?  Is security set up
according to your security policies and procedures.  The net of this step is
that you may either have to modify your droid operations activities or you
may have to extend or expand your SOP set to include the things that are
missing.
You now have a droid that is in control, you understand what it'd made of
and how it works, and you operate the droid in a rigorous manner in
accordance with your SOP set.  You will have a pile of accumulated
documentation at this point which may include all sorts of stuff such as
parts photocopies, a notebook of engineering data, user's guides, functional
test scripts and results, etc.  You might also start a log or notebook
showing a history of proper operation.  Depending on exactly what the little
droid does you may have a whole history of nuna-free product batches that
have passed all of the various post production QA tests that have been
administered.  Those nuna-free batches are significant accumulated proof of
consistent production.
Now, and only now, would I even begin to consider whether I even want to
write a URS... which is another long-winded discussion which we can have
later.
Is your documentation enough to keep Darth 483 at bay?  Will you feel the
hot stab of the lightsaber?  Or will Galactic Pharmaceuticals reward you
with a delightful dinner of roast Ewok?  All that may depend on Darth 483
but I would claim that you have a defensible position that shows
understanding, control, and qualified operation... none of which gets
delivered by trying to be a mind-reader of the original droid builders and
attempting to skry their intent.
Anthony Fiorito
VP Engineering
The Hollis Group, Inc.
610 889 7350
afiorito@hollisgroup.com

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